You are all wet canonically on that one. (Of course I guess Im defending myself here, too.) No one at the Vatican has in any way accused Medjugorie followers of being disobedient even though they continued to follow Medjugorie despite Bishop Zanics disapproval of it. Some take them in but then spit them out never assimilating them. What of the many miracles and increased devotion so many experienced at apparitions site not approved by the Church? These are just a few examples of messages contrary to our faith that come out of HLM. There are many, many others. Advertise on Catholic Exchange The organization has no approval or support from the Catholic diocese. I think youre going to have to elaborate on those statements! This is according to St. Thomas Aquinas. We now live in a world where Catholic Bishops and Priests rarely if ever publicly condemn sin. Be cautious of what you share about others, knowing that love covers a multitude of sins (1 Peter 4:8), which means it doesn't highlight or gossip about the failings of others. Too often, after apparitions are condemned people feel betrayed and give up on God and the Church. You might wish toreview the meaning of the these theological terms. They are not. It is sorely needed. The Church has spoken and, even if one suspects that Bishop Lennon is wrong, he should be obeyed. You are all mixed up big time. Again, go back to your synagogue of satan. I read up on them before responding to your criticism. There is the Truth, and everything else is a lie. Yet it can happen that moral conscience remains in ignorance and makes erroneous judgments [CCC 1790]This ignorance can often be imputed to personal responsibility. Cover me with the Precious Blood of Your Divine Son. They had every right to do what they did. A non-believer can simply read the older warning messages, dated much before any occurrences, and see for himself. Wishing you and yours a Blessed and Merry Christmas and a Blessed and Happy New Year! Dave, this is just perfect. I will pray for you also. There is NO reason for anyone to go to HLM now. If I change that plan, nothing in the message needs to change, it is still applicable. And, thank you, denis. The Bishop of a diocese is not the last word on any apparition. So, instead, the devil uses a Catholic facade to lure them in. As regarding any priests or Bishops who have been going to the site, do you suppose that Bishop Lennons words to them are vague and ambiguous also.forbid members of the clergy of any ecclesiastical jurisdiction to celebrate the sacraments on the site of Holy Love Ministries? The organization has been at odds with the Catholic Church almost from the start. Dear Tess: Bishop Lennon is under investigation? This is the error of relativism. No,Harry, I do not need to dig for dirt, the dirt is obvious for all to see. Holy Love is the fulfillment of Truth - the embodiment of all the Commandments. I find this article sad. Look at the fruits of the bishops catechesis for the last 40 years. This Vatican overrode Lennons gross and unethical use of Diocesan properties and monies. I dont see the point you might be trying to make by posing that question. If Jesus were giving messages on all truth to individuals, the result would not be thousands of denominations going in different directions. Amen." Whats clear to me is that you NEED HLM to be false. Tell me, is this good and normal? He just doesnt like it. Stay away so you not fall into a deep personal devotion and love for Blessed Mother and and the Sacred Heart of Jesus. They had them at a couple of their locations.). My point is that individual bishops can lead you away from what is of God. The fruits will show that this is from heaven and the good that comes out of it will yes, indeed, SAVE SOULS! We need all the help we can get now and may the author of this sad The founders and visionary claim it is ecumenical and therefore does not fall under Catholic Church authority. This is true of Mary as of no other creature. oh yea, shes spent thousands of dollars flying up there and one of her friends said:why doesnt God pick me to be the visionary? what is the fruit of this ministry? You have every right even a duty to suggest caution, as you did in your article. No. In this case, he has now gotten some devout Catholics to separate themselves by the Church by one degree that of disobedience. Perhaps you need a rest from this discussion. Bishops and Priests by their dead silence on sin are giving their approval of sin, and thus have become the greatest promoters of sin on the planet. The question now is how will the many followers respond to the Bishops decree? @3221: Why are you changing the subject to Medjugorje? In his new book,Navigating the Interior Life: Spiritual Direction and the Journey to GodBurke strongly recommends finding a good spiritual director to avoid getting misled and straying from Church teaching and authority. Remember, BISHOPS CONDEMNED Joan of Arc. Ive even thought of going to the Holy Love website and copying/pasting some of the more glaringly ridiculous messages to try to argue it that way, but I see it would be futile. He was very obedient to his Bishop despite the fact that the local diocese really handled the whole situation poorly. Thats all irrelevant to this topic. I ask you to stand with the Church and reserve judgement. Is this something current? When will we learn to listen and obey the Holy Spirit??? When others disapprove of your participation here, remember Heaven approves.You increase in holiness when your relationship with Me is such that you seek only to please Me.. Albert Drexel, which supports the claims of the Holy Love personnel that they have the right to follow their conscience because they have not taken a vow of obedience to the Bishop. Lest this get buried below, here is my response to 3221 re the condemnation of the Bayside events. God calls ALL people to repentance and conversion. The decree, issued by the diocese, was issued at the sole discretion and discernment (opinion) of Bishop Lennon and one unnamed "expert". This morning I was reading about the first Marian apparition in the U.S. approved by the Church. http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/commentandblogs/2011/02/11/medjugorje-is-generating-what-the-devil-loves-most-disobedience/. In conclusion, any Catholic who continues to promote HLM and Maureen Sweeney-Kyle needs to examine their conscience and review Church teaching. He was given great responsibilities by the visionary, who claimed they came from Mary herself. Now Rome is evaluating Medjugorie. Our destiny is in our own hands. Medjugorje has nothing to do with Holy Love. Oh my. We do not use condemn so much nowadays and we owe the change of language to Pope John XXIII. She has asked us to pray for sinners repeatedly. Bishop Lennon did not use the word condemn because he could not. To be honest, I tried my best to fully experience the site (however, I was already in a sour mood due to lack of sleep). Not a warning as you like to interpret it. I will say a prayer for you. It is for this reason that Our Lady says free will keeps us from holiness. Using St. Joan of Arc as an example would be an arguing point if we were discussing Maureen Sweeney-Kyle, the supposed visionary, but were not talking about her. I had been warned by Thomas and a couple ofothers (friends of his, Im guessing), that souls are at stake should my words turn people away from Holy Love. Any basic science course that teaches something of the human anatomy teaches that the human heart has four chambers not six. ), I think one should be hesitant in going there. Iused to wonder why the devil would have a hand in false apparitions when they inspired so many faithful Catholics to increase their prayer life and devotion to God and the Blessed Mother. Let me quote again from Catholic Apologetics: Is not fidelity to the true teaching of the Church to be given. When an alleged apparition attacks the Church, there is reason enough for the local Ordinary to say, thanks but no thanks.. Im truly curious how far this would go for you. (5)The door to the soul is free will. (cf CCC 1464, 1468, 736, 1832, Galatians 5:22-23 Vulgate). ~~. Its his job. She investigated and learned that there were enough red flags concerning these messages that it would not be prudent to visit. And hope for the help of Our Blessed Mother And her son Jesus. they knew each other since they were 9 yrs old. Makes it look like it is genuine itself. If you enjoyed this article, subscribe to receive more great content just like it. Perhaps Bishop Lennon had something like the above in mind when he condemned S-Ks claims? Had a friend who could not have a baby. Since its relatively close to where one of my sisters lives, I mentioned the place to her. This is not to understand it at all. Third, conviction is hopeful. That approval/disapproval belongs to the Bishop of the Diocese in which HLM is, in this case Bishop Lennon. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour. It is when Rome itself speaks officially that the matter will be finished. Is it possible the Bishop is wrong about Holy Love? How is it possible, if HLM is an ecumenical group, to teach CATHOLIC doctrine and not be under the local Ordinary? of the Church. Most of the ones that I know now reject it. How does one fight with that kind of delusion? But HLM was NOT condemned nor could it be canonically, unless there were something against faith or morals of the Catholic Church. it does not mean not heeding a warning from a bishop. God bless you all, and be careful !!! Why?. Nobody claims to be gods here. What must be safeguarded for the faithful is authentic Church teaching and Sacred Scripture being understood properly. I lost my father to this place simply because the visionary and other devoted followers made him feel special and important. As much as I do not care for Bishop Lennon ( I am from Boston), the fact that since these apparitions she has divorced and remarried ( have not heard about any annulment) and now goes against this Bishop, is a sure sign to stay away from this ministry. Bishop Zanec of Medjugorie fame, warned (read admonished) the laity about going to that apparition site. Thomas Aquinas told them all on 11/17/09 (after Bishop Lennons Decree): The decree set forth by your bishop concerning participation in this Mission here was presented as though it carried with it the charge of blind obedience. There is no call for using vulgarities here. 38 Therefore, in the present case I advise you: Leave these men alone! JESUS CHRIST who has given authority to his Church, not to some nameless and faceless commentator on an Internet web site. Very interesting; Id like to visit it someday since its relatively close to me. If the full Faith is not being taught, then it is endangered. Bishop Lennons statement said it was a warning and that is what is wasa warning. Now compare that Jesus with the Jesus from Holy Love.. Just because they are not listed does not mean they are not approving. There are reasons for this my upcoming book Private Revelation: What Does the Catholic Church Teach? goes into this. He was obedient even to death on the crossand where He is, there also will His servant be. There is a you tube video on the internet formulated by Lennons Cleveland flock. There are none. Apparitions at Holy Love Ministries Revisited. Jesus warns us in the Bible, woe to them who follow but worse for that person who leads them to perdition. And, when will it be out? The Church has spoken on Holy Love Ministries. my healing started in medjugorje the last week of the marian yr in 88, the finger of the lord touched my soul and the divine mercy devotion gave me the courage to face my sinfullness yrs later. I am so sorry you feel the need to be insulting. And, last time I checked, the rosary is a Catholic devotion. The final Church proclamation comes as no surprise. He told me of local corruption of the priests and said, What else could we do? I pointed out that Jesus would certainly have his way with his Church, so I did not believe a true apparition would be forced out of the Church. Yes, there are those within Church structure that do not follow Church teaching. (4) I will obey bishops or priests even when they disobey God by forsaking the, (5) Whoever protests against anything a Church prelate does or says is disloyal. For Bishop Lennon to state in his canonical decree regarding Holy Love Ministries,.having reviewed the theological content of the alleged apparitions to Maureen Sweeney-Kyle, and having consulted an expert in this matter, I .declare the alleged apparitions and locations(I think he means locutions)are not supernatural in origin. one has to say that he disavows anything supernatural in origin in the teachings of the Catholic Faith, for the doctrine of Holy Love Ministries is the full Catholic teaching in all its pristine splendor. The clarity and the authenticity of the mystical theology taught there is the Catholic Faith. Certainly not. The devil is too cunning to take on by oneself. I know my Catholic Faith well in all its purity, its beauty, and its authentic mystical depth. Piety, prayer and good works are not lone criteria for authenticating heavenly revelations. People are bound to obey Lennons directives. It is offensive. Now youre obfuscating the issue. condemned. It says no credibility can be given. Your explanation proves absolutely nothing of substance. Without a supernatural character, one does not have any reason to go to HLM. This is a New Era in time, and it is all due to Holy Love. ( I keep asking the following question but I never get an answer from the scoffers who write here: If your bishop tells you that the Holy Eucharist is only God during Mass, so disregard the Sacred Species otherwise, will you do so so that you can feel truly obedient?) @denis: Well yes, of course Ive heard of Joan of Arc. Yes, if we use our free will to sin,we, in effect, tie Gods Hands. She has acted within canon law. Thanks for your clear, straight-to-the-point comment. Did it automatically disappear? Read it again with the understanding that canonically ite is a warning, not an official condemnation, for if it were that the word would be used. Why are Priests, Bishops, Arch Bishops, Cardinals, Nuns, Brothers, Christians, children, etc. see how the apparitions to father gobbi and sister faustina were treated and all the apparitions of the bmv and u just might, just might see where we are in the present age.. the high clergy treated the lord in a shamful manner and now for the last almost two hundred yrs the visionaries and appearnces of the the bvm are being treated in the way of the intellect because the old deceiver has learned the way of the western civilization is prideful and greedy. I just read the Period. That would be tantamount to making the Cross into a god. Heres the site: http://www.thewarningsecondcoming.com/home/. Translation: I like to practiceits also an avenue for those who cannot understand the English well. Its irrelevant to this topic the state of the Church these days. Can you repost the link? I know this was not addressed to me, but I will point out that it is not necessary that there even be a heresy at HLM; all that is necessary for the condemnation is for there to be a supernatural claim and for the bishop to find the claim to be in error. NO legitimate apparition in the history of the Catholic Church has EVER told/ordered/directed someone to go outside of the authority of the Church in order to make itself known. Amen, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven (Matt. Our Lady with the bowl in her hand and using the baking of a cake to put forth her message. They lied about sexual abuse and covered it up. How sad that, even in the face of the most basic logic, many refuse to understand how dangerous it is to follow the serpentine path of these untruths. 2021 Holy Love Messages "Each and every person that walks the face of the earth is My child and I am their Mother. After Thomas challenged my article, I wrote to Fr. I am All Three. There is nothing theologically erroneous in the messages you cited. She refused to recant that she was hearing voices directing her to do such and such. They say so themselves. Such people will not be attracted to obvious evil. Jesus told us not t judge, did He not? Your heart is in the right place but it is seriously misguided. I admire your fortitude! The Church, guided by the Holy Spirit, always looks below the surface because all that glitters isnt gold and regardless of how many people visit or how many statues are erected or rosaries said, it does not constitute proof in the Churchs judgment. Trudging along two miles of country road in Kettle River, Minnesota, I shifted the back carrier which held my three-year-old son. The Church is very clear in her language and Bishop Lennon went as far as he could go without being out of line canonically. Frankly, the bishops have failed miserably in leading the souls of this country to our beautiful God. When in the history of the Catholic Church has the Blessed Mother operated outside the Church? You might wish toreview the meaning of the these theological terms. 3221 is a goner and is a member of the Holy Love Church. This is a sin. Bishop Richard Lennon, head of the Cleveland Catholic Diocese, has issued a decree to clergy and laity of the diocese that Holy Love Ministries of Lorain County is officially off limits. recently Pope Benedict XV1 applied pressure to the Bishops when he stated that no monies should be given to organizations not in line with Church teachings. I am not going to argue. Thomas T. emailed me last summer and we had a back and forth debate on the authenticity of the apparitions. To add insult to injury, further character assassination is committed against those said to be suppressing the alleged messages. She has a B.A. Once again, thank you for your witness and speaking boldly and clearly for the Church. Graciously, the Holy Spirit granted me the wisdom to recognize that places are not the source of my faith nor do I rely on them but rather I approached in much the same non-committal demeanor as you with a prudent hope. Every message mentiones Holy Love, Holy Love, Truth, etc., I am very cautious and disheartened. daily Mass, rosary, weekly adoration and love of all is so frowned apron. Thanks. Thats not the topic of this thread. the use of the word Cross here is meant to convey that one must consecrateset ones self apart for- entering into the sufferings of ones life with generous acceptance of Gods Will. Baloney and more. They crave to learn how to deepen in union with Him. Christ DEPENDS on us to be His Hands, His Voice, His Presence in this world that needs Him so much. Look it up in the dictionary. You say that Disobedience to Church authority is one of the premier hallmarks of a false vision, etc.. when there are those in Church Authority themselves that are disobedient to the Pope and the Magisterium. we have known about holy love since the 80s and we believe in those apparitions. Our Mother is not asking us to condone sin by saying forgive everything. If there was initial skepticism and resistance, God ultimately overcame it. Do you not know that it is through our free will choices that we sin? (See Baglios book for all the stuff they can and cannot do). If anything, HLM has brought me to a deeper understanding of the ancient truths of my Faith. Have mercy, Lord, have mercy! If the bishop says dont, have enough respect for him to obey. Another person said that her fallen-away Catholic friend that once ridiculed the site became a believer. His pattern of lying is well-documented since the Boston homosexual scandal of which he played a central part. and you are too kind Harry! I am proving, however, that we should never say never . My second article (originally published 11/20/2009): Proclamation on Holy Love Ministries Will Test Hearts and Obedience. The only true division is good and evil. My Mother had a set and lost them so i ordered them from Knock here in Ireland. No, it does not. Will you gain fruit from disobedience to the bishop? 6/10/93 from Our Lady: You do not realize how powerful your prayers are and how much I need them. This is contrary to our faith. I just read in the Summa Theologica that disobedience is right when a church authority is teaching heresy. Who has the words of eternal life? This is Not true. and was not very well in many ways. Heavenly Guidance For Priests - Holy Love Messages; For The Church, All Nations, All Families, All Individuals - Consecration Of The Heart Of The World To The United Hearts Of The Most Holy Trinity In Union With The Immaculate Heart Of Mary; Holy Love Messages. The argument that HLM followers are disobedient to Bishop Lennon does not hold up when you look at the procedures happening with an other unapproved appartion site. So, the heart of the Triune God, existing only in the human nature of the second person of the Holy Trinity, is a four-chambered heart, NOT A SIX-CHAMBERED HEART AS CLAIMED BY THE HOLY LOVE MESSAGES.. If only she would medidate on the messages. I do not come for My welfare but for your own. Doctrine is doctrine no matter who is sharing it. What I almost certain of is that he does not reveal that he abandoned his family for this ministry. Then, it becomes a matter of obeying Catholic authority or thinking you know better. The word condemned was not used but it is apparent that there are serious concerns regarding the authenticity of the apparitions, among other things. If the piece you cited in your comment above is the level of Bishop Lennons discernment, it gives evidence of just how corrupt he is. The Bishop of Cleveland says otherwise by the fact of his document and he claims to have the backing of the Holy See. Too often, if an alleged apparition is condemned people feel betrayed and give up on God and the Church. When I spoke with people from the diocese, I learned that some things reported on the Holy Love website are misrepresented and subtly drive a wedge between followers and the bishop. ( I know you are anxious to find some error in what I am saying, but get a hold of yourself. Bishops are charged with the task of investigating and pronouncing on alleged apparitions. In Scripture, Jesus tells us that the Father and Him are one. Except that God didnt stop my father from sacrificing me. One of my former theology professors at Notre Dame also endorses the messages. Mary Kochan has my contact information. So, be cautious and pray to the Holy Spirit to give you discernment. Read her blog atPattiMaguireArmstrong.com. My sources of reference are the great St. Thomas of Aquinas and the highly-esteemed orthodox theologian, Deitrich von Hildebrand, called by Pope Pius X11 a 20th century Doctor of the Church.
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